In the Lounge with Archie Messersmith-Bunting

Archie (00:00 — Introduction to Higher Education Insights)

Because you will never, never convince 30,000 students to sit down and be quiet. You will never.

Dominic (00:10)

Hi everyone and welcome to the first episode of In the Lounge. On this podcast we meet with experts from the higher education field to share ideas, learn from their experiences, talk about new trends we're seeing, and get an unseen perspective of what's going on in the space. If you have any questions for my guests please just reach out over email. We'll send the question right along and get an answer for you. My email is dominic@lounge.live. 

Today in the Lounge we're here with Archie Messersmith-Bunting. Archie is a former higher education professional. A community engager, a public speaker. And despite us looking about the same age, he has almost two decades of experience in higher ed, including almost half of that in fraternity and sorority life. He was assistant director of programming at Illinois State University, a director at his fraternity headquarters, Sigma Phi Epsilon. He joined the NIC and wrote the manual on event safety. And he has spoken at around, what would you say, 200 universities, maybe more Archie? Amazing. I'll let it.

Archie (01:04)

At least, yes.

Dominic (01:07)

Let you sort of give a quick background on yourself of anything I missed. 

Archie (01:12)

Well, yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me here in the lounge. I don't really go to lounges anymore now that I have a child. Those days have passed, so it's nice to be in a lounge. Yeah, I mean, guess the quick synopsis to fill in the blanks there. You know, I was a very active college student in this world of student activity, so everything outside the classroom, because I didn't go to class very much. And then had a full life before I fell back into higher education.

And then have been involved in higher education, whether either full-time or now as a volunteer for 20 years. yeah, but as you point out, a large part of that, ⁓ at least the paid portion of my higher education career has been in fraternity and sorority. I'm very connected to student activities and student activities has a special place in my heart. But yeah, I only worked in student activities full-time for three years.

Dominic (02:03)

Amazing. I guess a good segue. Could you tell us just a little bit about how you got started in the space? What was your journey like kicking things off?

Archie (02:12 — Archie's Journey into Higher Education)

Yeah, yeah, it was an accident. ⁓ So when I was an undergrad, I mean, obviously, I knew that there were people that did this for a living because of my ⁓ student activities directors and SGA director, but like it never really computed for me. My goal was always to be a performer. I had a very singular goal. I went to college to own that craft and then go to New York. So it never really occurred to me that this would be a thing for me.

⁓ and then in life, ⁓ I'm very, I'm very, ⁓ open about my struggles with addiction. ⁓ and so life sort of changed for me. ⁓ and then I ended up being back in a place outside of New York city where fraternity existed again. And so my path into this full time was as a volunteer, I was a volunteer as a chapter counselor, frontline supporting, ⁓ fraternity men, chapter meeting and chapter executive board meetings for a decade.

Before I actually then moved to Richmond to work at SIGF headquarters. volunteers are the lifeblood of fraternity and sorority. If volunteers didn't exist, we would not have fraternity and sorority today. So, I got to see it from a firsthand vantage point. Sorry for my dogs, I dogs they bark. And yeah, that's how my journey began.

Dominic (03:28)

For those of you that don't know Archie has a number of dogs has had a number of dogs over the years ⁓ and they're all extremely adorable. ⁓ What drew you what do you think drew you to the space in the first place and what is something was there a moment where you said yes this is it for me like this is where I belong

Archie (03:48)

That's a phenomenal question. Sorry, if you can hear my Chihuahua, is singing the she's singing the sil- the way downstairs. She's doing her best right now to be a part in the lounge. Um, huh. I don't know if there's a moment. That's a phenomenal question. You should keep asking people that. I don't know if there's a moment, but it was definitely, it was a, for sure, a collection of moments. I think for me and Dominic, you know about this, about this, about me, this, about me, I am like,

Honest and transparent, maybe to a fault. I am an open book ⁓ because I have been through some things. And I think for me ⁓ as a gay man ⁓ going to college in the South, SIGEP is headquartered in the South. husband and I, live in Virginia. I think there is a lack of ⁓ just complete somebody living their complete honest self.

I think there's a lack of that. think that just as people, we tend to wear masks. And so to be able to see students respond so positively to someone just being so honest. then there have been, so it gives you, as some of those collection of moments, there have been times over the years where people have reached out sometimes a decade later and said, you know, I never really told you this, but like being able to watch you and see you just be you and not be afraid to be you.

Help to me, be me. ⁓ Yeah, it's a little collection of moments, because here's the truth. Nobody gets into higher ed and stays in higher ed for the paycheck. That is just the truth. So to be able to do this and my colleagues out there that are still doing it full time, they do it because they love what they do and they love impacting others and having lasting impact on their lives. So I don't know if there's a moment, but a collection of moments that keep me going.

Dominic (05:43 — Creating a Sense of Belonging)

Yeah, I mean, think there's a theme there where from what I've seen, a sense of belonging and creating that purpose for a lot of folks is so empowering. I think I get that from what I do and I think it's so important. yeah, thank you. That's great insight. And I think some folks might be able to resonate with that. ⁓ When you look back, I know you're no longer day to day in higher ed. When you look back at your work over the 10, 20 years, what are some of the highlights or moments that you're most proud of?

Archie (06:12 — Proud Moments in Higher Education)

Yeah. Well, at SIGEP, we were, I think there's a debate on who was the first. So we won't, I won't say first. We were one of the first, if not the first to create a standalone sexual assault prevention curriculum that we rolled out in partnership with Alpha Delta Pi, a sorority. And yeah, I helped build that curriculum. I kind of had a, had a brain moment.

When I was like, wait a minute, if we would just live our oath, then all of this would be taken care of. And so the live your oath campaign was born, um, with my good friend Suzette, um, and drew and Aaron, who I got all the names right. Um, travel the country filming for that. That was a, and like, there was no award for that. There was no recognition, but like literally the live your oath campaign is still done today in SIGF and ADPOW chapters all over the country. No one has any idea that I created it. Uh, but that's really cool.

⁓ The other piece, ⁓ working with my good friend, Dr. Lori Hart and others on the committee ⁓ to create the NIC Alcohol and Drug Guidelines, which is now what is used as the baseline ⁓ for alcohol prevention. ⁓ I was really proud of that, that we got people to unanimously agree to that. ⁓ Because I, as you know, I have a very firm belief there's nothing we can do. 

To make college students stop drinking. Like that's just not going to happen. So let's have a real conversation about alcohol and let's not be like, well, you can have four wine-fuelers on Tuesday if you wear pink and bring a red scarf. Like it was just, it was bananas. So ⁓ those moments stand out as things that will be, ⁓ you know, exist far beyond my time of really, really positive work that was done in the industry around prevention.

Dominic (08:07)

Yeah, that's amazing. I think we all know how hard it can be to be a change maker and to implement change across the space. I think it takes a lot of buy-in and expertise. And also, as you mentioned, shouting out a few folks, does take getting together with a number of people and doing it. I don't think it's easy doing anything by yourself. So that is a great note. What do you think, and this may be related to some of those, 

What were some of your largest challenges? think over the last 10 years, it's a good thing to sort of, I think folks might want to hear that because either they're going through something similar or they have goals to do something like you've done. And they just might say, look, it's not worth it because it's going to be hard or I'm halfway through and this is really challenging. So what do you kind of say to those folks? Could you just shed some light on some of your challenges?

Archie (08:54)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's mean, a year of my life was spent convincing people that this was the way to go with the alcohol and drug guidelines. And, you know, there are some really smart people that I just completely disagreed with that even even talking about beer was just like a no starter. And I was like, OK, well, then we're not going to win. not going to win. And it was really discouraging to.

To walk away from some conversations and realize, match, no. ⁓ Walk away from some conversations and realize some people actually thought that the way to go was just like no alcohol on campus, which is just not possible. I'll go on lounge people just one second.

And we're back. ⁓ The other piece, the other piece, I was working at SIGEP headquarters to kind of this care, this alcohol theme when SIGEP voted to transition to substance free facilities. Okay. For those of that don't know what that means, SIGEP voted that all SIGEP houses would be substance free by a certain date. You want to talk about convincing some people that the work was worth it. Oof, that was, that was a whole thing. And it wasn't, and I think what's, what, 

I mean, I knew this, but what I really got to see in real time was that a lot of times the vote was like literally the beginning, even though it took a year to get there, like two years to get there. Then it was like traveling around the country, talking to people like, how do we do this? How do we actually get alcohol out of a fraternity house? ⁓ And a lot of, there's that quote, somebody said it. You can't, you can't connect the dots looking back, forwards or whatever the dot, whatever the dot that is. Is it back? Okay. 

Dominic (10:40)

No, no, I don't know, I can't remember.

Archie (10:41)

I don't know something about a dot. I can see the dots now. Like it all makes sense now, but it was in it. I, and I, you didn't ask this question. One thing I would say about that. If you find yourself or you are supporting someone that is in that space, in that season of, um, constant rejection, constant, honestly, turmoil, constantly people telling you that you're wrong. Like, I don't need you to tell me that it's going to be okay because it might not be.

What I need you to do is just sit with me. Just sit with me. Just sit with me. Love me. Let's eat a pizza. Let's go see a movie. ⁓ That's what I need. Not like everything's going to work out. You don't know that. and I definitely I definitely saw the people during those times of my life that I'm like, yep, that's how I want to support people like that, because that's real. That's real.

Dominic (11:31 — Advice for Newcomers in Higher Education)

And what would you say to somebody who's getting into the space now? Do you think there's advice you'd give anybody? It's 2025. A lot of things are happening. There's a lot of change that's happened over last 10 years, not just in fraternity story life, but more broadly in higher education. ⁓ What's some advice that you'd give them as they're looking into this?

Archie (11:48)

Yeah, I mean, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful career. I joked about money, but that's a real thing. and, here's the thing, you don't have to go into higher ed and be there forever and still, ⁓ you know, your path may go somewhere else, but I will say, ⁓ so I was a late arrival to higher education. ⁓ most people think I've been doing this since college and I haven't, I got my master's degree late in life, but if you were going to be in the field, if you have decided.

Student Affairs is what I'm going to do. Then do your undergrad, your master's degree, and then if you're set, then go ahead and get that PhD. Even if you think, oh my gosh, I hate research, I hate writing papers, I hate it. But I do believe that in today's world, if you want to be in this long term and eventually have a career that will allow you to support your family, go ahead and go all the way through.

Dominic (12:45)

Amazing. ⁓ We're going to get into some more fun questions in a second. But my last question, kind of in this segment, is where do you see higher education going in the next five, 10 years? And let me just preface this by saying I just went to the NASPA conference. I've actually been to a number of conferences in last few months. And I think there's definitely a trend of ⁓ a little bit of sort fear or uncertainty in space. ⁓ So I want you to sort of give us your opinion of what

Where might go, also maybe spin something a little bit positive. What do you see that kind of excites you? maybe some cool trends that are happening. Let us know.

Archie (13:23)

Yeah, so ⁓ honestly, my faith in both the country and our society is actually largely rooted in higher education because you will never, never convince 30,000 students to sit down and be quiet. You will never. So I am grateful that we have this thing called higher education.

⁓ I'm grateful that we have ⁓ professors and people that are willing to go the distance and stay. But ⁓ at a time in a person and a human's development, when they are beginning to question authority, question, well, why is the earth round? Like, yes, people, earth's round, okay? But like, ⁓ begin to have those questions, that's where they're gonna end up. So ⁓ there are little, I mean, in essence, little

Countries all over America with these colleges and universities, show me how you're going to get 50,000 students at the University of Alabama to sit down and be quiet. Not going to happen. So I'm hopeful and grateful that it exists.

Dominic (14:34)

I think a lot of people would agree with you on that. yeah, it's probably a shared opinion with many. So very, yeah, very insightful. My next segment is a fun segment called a stat chat. I've titled this one stat chat. So this one, you can decide, would you like to give me an interesting stat that you know about higher education or fraternity or life? Or would you like me to give you one and I'm going to ask your opinion on it? Okay, cool. So I do have one.

Archie (15:01)

Let's go the latter.

Dominic (15:04 — Stat Chat: Insights on Fraternity Life)

So this came out of a study done by Everfi and it was shared by the NIC. They surveyed around 24,000 students across 43 universities. ⁓ And the statistic is of the students that do consider getting involved in or joining a social fraternity sorority, one in five ultimately decide not to join. So curious, what are your thoughts on that? What do you make of that? ⁓ And would love to hear your insights. 

Archie (15:30)

Yeah, that's a that's a sad number for me, but also not surprising. I wonder if that statistic would have been the same before social media. And I bet the answer is no. ⁓ Social media for all I think. Well, my opinion is there's a lot of great and there's all not so great. But we have social media has really elevated this idea of top tier, bottom tier, ⁓ this idea of ⁓ a popular, not popular.

Instead of letting people just figure things out on their own. ⁓ Like when I was going to college in 19, I want to finish that year. ⁓ I got like a little pamphlet in the little brochure from all the fraternities in the mail that came to me and I would open it up and I would read it. And that was it. That is that is all that I had about the fraternities going into college. Now there's this channel and that channel and blah, blah. So I would assume. 

That many people have made decisions before they even step on a campus about, if I don't get a bit to blah, blah, blah, blah, then I'm just not being a part. And they are missing out on lifelong friendships and relationships. So I'm not surprised based upon our current social media client, but it does make me a little sad. 

Dominic (16:43)

Yeah, interesting. thought like overall, I think one out of five not pursuing is I think there's room for improvement. think that it's not a honestly when I saw that number, I'd wait. One out of five don't.

Archie (16:53)

Again, one out of five don't or one out of five do, which.

That's a lot to me.

Dominic (16:59)

Yeah, I think it's what is that 20 % just about so yeah, that's there's room for improvement for sure. I think for sure. But I think you the nail on the head. think there's definitely also this kind of one of the key takeaways from that survey was just in general the perception and I think perception gets to depending on how it's delivered. I think we see a lot of media about it. So just interesting data point there. So okay, let's let's change things over in last few minutes that we have. What's something surprising people don't know about you?

Archie (17:33)

Uh, well, I surprised if people didn't know about me. Um,

Dominic (17:37)

I know so many answers for you, but I'm not sure. There are a lot Archie. You should know this one very, very well.

Archie (17:45)

⁓ well, okay. I've been to Antarctica. ⁓ maybe everyone doesn't know that. Like I've been to Antarctica. Yeah. I actually spent, it's just been some time there. ⁓ actually went swimming with the penguins and walruses in Antarctica, which is very cold. So I would not, I would not suggest that. ⁓ yeah, I lived a full life before I came into higher ed. So

Dominic (18:03)

Yeah. Good. When you see Archie next at a conference or on a campus, make sure you ask him about the penguins and the walruses. Yeah, and give you some information about those. What do you do outside of work? What are your hobbies? Tell us about some of your passions, hobbies, etc.

Archie (18:16)

Yeah, I'm a parent, so don't have hobbies. My hobby is parenting. No, have a full-time job now at a medical corporation, but then I also still speak a lot. And so I would say if my husband allows me to continue to travel to campuses to speak. would say that helping others has become my hobby in life, which is a great hobby.

Dominic (18:39)

Amazing. And then lastly, who inspires you? It can be someone in the space. It can be someone outside of the space. Who do you think is someone who's really made an impact or just somebody you look up to maybe try to mimic a little bit or take inspiration from?

Archie (18:53)

That's a great question. I mean, I've said her name, but Lori Hart is that Dr. Leroy Hart is that such a profound impact on my life. ⁓ and we, we share. Like when we go down, like the belief chart, we probably have a lot of the exact same beliefs and the ways that we interact and engage with college students is just so real. ⁓ I, I, I wish that I had known her even earlier, ⁓ because she really has, ⁓

Not just even in professional life, in personal life, talking through adoption, excuse me, the adoption journey and just being there for me every step of the way when I was like, things got totally nuts in that world of adopting our son. Yeah, so I don't have enough nice things to say about the woman and there's a reason why she's won all the awards in higher education for all of the things.

Dominic (19:45)

So I can second that she is an amazing person. She even in my sort of shorter time here, she's had a profound impact on my work and my life. yeah, shout out to Lori Hart. ⁓ This segment is called Pass the Mic. It's our last little bit. ⁓ Who would you nominate to come and join the Lounge?

Archie (20:03)

⁓ I'll, I'll, I'll not do Lori because I'm sure she's on your list of we've had to.

Dominic (20:10)

We've had a number of webinars with Laurie that we love. So there we go. can't get enough of her. I will say that. 

Archie (20:16)

Let me pass the mic. So I'm passing a mic passing a mic.

Dominic (20:21)

I don't see a mic. You don't have a nice mic like me right now. Although I know you have one.

Archie (20:25)

Okay. I will pass the Sharpie, which I'm not speaking into, ⁓ Billy Boulden. was saying university. ⁓

Dominic (20:34)

I just saw him.

Archie (20:35)

Great guy, amazing things in the field, ⁓ produces amazing professionals and great humans. So Billy all the way.

Dominic (20:43)

Incredible ⁓ Archie. Thank you so much for your time. How can folks get in touch with you? Can they follow your Instagram? What's your Instagram handle? What do you shout out anything you'd like to do? Yeah.

Archie (20:53)

Yeah, for sure. For sure. ⁓ Instagram is @archie.cares. My email is archi@archiecares.com. I actually did just launch a brand new program called Leadership Doesn't Have to be Loud, which I'm very excited about. It's being received very well in the industry. I feel like in the industry I'm known as like the mental health guy and like the addiction and recovery guy. But I also realized that we're not teaching people what actual leadership is because actual leadership is not just talking over someone and being louder.

And if you look at our leaders right now on television, that's all you see. And that's not leadership. So I'm out there teaching people about healthy leadership. And it's pretty

Dominic (21:33)

Amazing. Thanks so much Archie. We'll chat soon. Thanks.